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Why summoners are terrible in a party

Discussion in 'General DFO' started by BlanixTheBlood, Jul 20, 2010.

  1. Soltis Carried by Sandors

    The angle of that comment was to imply that you're asking us to cut out a majority of our important skills, not to compare SB moves' usefulness to Summons.

    Also the irony of that last comment about zerg rushing is that the majority of people are having problems with summoners because all they do is zerg rush, therefore I suppose they're dead weight as well in a sense.



    EDIT: Also just for the record, besides Ausuko, no summoner should be summoning summons that aren't maxed unless its to sac them :x
  2. Gloomy dicks

    What do you mean?

    Relic:

    1st room: Summoner uses Mark the Target, the guy suddenly cannot go invisible.
    2nd room: The summoned creatures keep the guard's aggro while everyone just waits for his aura to change so they can attack.
    3rd room: Summoner is about the same as any other class. Unless they're the ones that end up getting chased by the icicle, in which case the Summoner is the only one that can attack while keeping the icicle away.
    4th room: Same as the second room. You can just stay on the other side of the map with the summoner and do whatever you can that won't put you in danger.
    5th room: Lumi is a faggot, all the summons die. Unless the summoner has Kasijas out, in which case you have an unstoppable, unstunnable, unkillable party mate. ALTERNATIVE: the summoner has a good weapon and the party has an Asura or a Grappler, and some decent DPS classes: run in, grab Lumi, mark him, dead.
    Boss: Mark the Target x3, party spams holding skills, 15 seconds later, dead.

    Vilmark:

    It's just one of those dungeons man, every class has them. <_<

    No, you don't understand. You do not have to get hit just because the summons are attacking. You can attack just fine. All you have to do is run around to the other side of the monsters and attack from there.

    How complicated, right? Yes, I know this strategy won't work in all situations. But it will in most. And you do have other options. You can use Ashe Fork to knock the monster down. Or you can not attack while the monsters are attacking, and wait until they stop. Or use skills that reach further than you can be hit. There are countless possibilities. You have to think it through. Not just rush in like you do in every other party. Because every other party does not engage the entire room at once.

    =\

    EDIT: I agree about limiting summons. I don't summon Wisps in a party....
  3. Ring "...that's my role."

    I already do and reject them and they get mad lululul


    also the more you zerk the faster you kill your enemies the less HP you spend, there fore the less you die.
  4. MasPan Shi-SHAW!

    How is that ironic? I'm agreeing that zerg rushing is useless and causes problems, not requesting they do it more. Zerg rushing is irritating as all hell and cuts visibility down to nothing.

    Comments in bold + underline.
  5. Soltis Carried by Sandors

    Wish I could rep over here as this post just in general was extremely helpful to me personally.


    EDIT:mad:MasPan: Ok not exactly ironic, but I suppose I'm just saying I agree as well heh.
  6. MasPan Shi-SHAW!

    See my response to the King's Relic post. It was highly exaggerated, stating/implying certain things ONLY summoners can do, which is not the case. The majority of the time summons have caused more harm than good, particularly against the 2nd, 4th, and 5th rooms.
  7. Ring "...that's my role."


    damit maspan I was eating so it took longer for me :l
  8. Dice Dragon Level 46 Manzer Brodor

    ITT:Summoners claim summoners are not bad. Non summoners claim they are. Both give one sided arguements.

    In otherwords its like striker superarmor. Strikers dont feel its OP, but everyone else does.

    So why dont we just agree to dissagree and say Summoners are a good class when played correctly? And at Blanix, Dont rush in like a baddie. You have a SA jump attack, use it to get in and knock up the mobs. Then you AND the summons can beat them down.
  9. BlanixTheBlood Perfect hair

    Edit: Dice, I've lost half my health trying to do that before. I know zerging is stupid but thats all berserkers do.
  10. Gloomy dicks

    1. nitpicking.
    2. ...I've partied with summoners here and you can see the aura through the summons... more nitpicking.
    3. I've tried soloing this place a couple dozen times and not ONCE has the icicle ever failed to rush directly at me. I've partied in this dungeon several times and it has never ever ever ever ever evr (ever evr stop nitpicking PLEASE) failed to rush at a human. AND EVEN IF IT DID ever follow a summon (I've never run Kings road), you could simply IGNORE it because the summon will quickly get frozen and just SIT THERE eating icicle penises all day while you wail on the guard.
    4. stop nitpicking.
    5. I kinda agree with you on this...
    6. You have never ever partied with a summoner so you wouldn't know how amazing this is.

    In fact I find it hard to believe you know anything about summoners at all. Your entire post is just assumptions backed up by assumptions. Just... stop acting like you know the slightest thing about how dungeon a will react to summon b. Because you don't... and stop nitpicking when you have nothing better to say. It's double super unclassy
  11. MasPan Shi-SHAW!

    Doesn't work when projectile/AoE attacks aimed at summons interrupt the jump before the SA kicks in. Also results in a lot of tanked damage for no reason if SA does kick in.

    Nobody here said Summoners are a BAD CLASS. The argument is that the players using them are horrible at using them in parties. They are not taking into consideration how their teammates operate and trying to force the entire party to conform to their strategy, which is asenine.
  12. Dice Dragon Level 46 Manzer Brodor

    But the OP in this case blanix is the one saying he wont change how he plays. So in other words both parties are at fault. Sure summoners hould limit summons, But not to the point of gimping themselves. Basicly, Long range classes work alot better with Summoners as they just look at the mob of summons and throw shit into it. Melee classes have a hard time with ANYTHING fucking with what they are doing. The same arguement has been made Against Shururu, that it makes random projectiles hit party members, But thats only the case if the party members are standing inside Shururu, which only melee guys do.
  13. Soltis Carried by Sandors

    Its hard for me to give advice in regards the ancient dungeons, but as to the 2nd room; couldn't you just pull the summons in a direction away from the party occasionally with train? iirc the cooldown in it is only 5secs to turn it on/off. It's far from like a holy grail or anything, but I imagine that would make it easier for ppl to get a look at the barrier, assuming they are having trouble seeing it.
  14. BlanixTheBlood Perfect hair

    Essentially this. I have a summoner, and I did say I can solo with it easily. But did I mention it is a sandor/louise build? Yup, I'm encouraging zerging.
    Edit: dice, hey look, I can stop attacking with my berserker, but I guess that only applies to summoners. On my summoner I can change my play style and it works for every party except with other summoners.
  15. Soltis Carried by Sandors

    This thread needs build links >:/
  16. Dice Dragon Level 46 Manzer Brodor

    But I can melee with summoners just fine. Keep that backstep key handy and play safely, which you should be doing anyways. A zerker is all about standing on the edge of a razor.
  17. Gir Raging Homosexual

    summoners are still gay faggots
  18. Gloomy dicks

    Wisps are terrible in a party. They are slow, attack slow, and get beat around pretty easily.

    Of course, I will summon everything at a boss. that's a given. Until then I'll do my best to keep the screen clear. Wisps are pretty erratic in terms of aggression, so at any given moment I do not have Train up they can float out of Mark the Target range and do their own thing.

    I can keep my summons pretty well stacked up on any spot there's a monster to mark.

    I kinda like this thread, since it gives me info about how I can improve what I do in a party. So far nobody but Ring (and I guess I should apologize to MasPan...) and Blanix have gone out to attack anyone and that's cool.

    Pingas
  19. MasPan Shi-SHAW!

    --Edit--

    Just saw your apology Gloomy, thanks.


    How is it nitpicking when I noted EVERY point you made? I directly addressed everything you posted. Where you claimed something was exclusive to summoners, I noted examples otherwise. Where you claimed something was useful, I agreed, but noted how other things go wrong that counteract that usefulness.

    Ok, I'm wrong on the ice guardian. It's very difficult to see exactly what the icicle is chasing amidst the chaos, so it looked like it was chasing summons.

    1. I AGREED with you that the summoner could be useful here. I simply noted that other classes can do that too.
    2. It is VERY difficult to see a color shift when there are several mobs/attack animations flying all over the guardian. It is much easier to fight Aegis when she is 100% visible. Whether it is possible or not is not the question - it's very difficult. You may be attuned to seeing through summons, but that doesn't mean it isn't difficult.
    3. I conceded this, it was my mistake.
    4. With summoner zergrushing, I take about 5-10 random burn hits. Without summoner zergrushing, I take 1-2 tops. Don't see how this is nitpicking, those burns hurt.
    5. We agree, no issue
    6. I have partied with summoners several times. Occasionally I get a really good one who knows how to use their best summons instead of just zergrushing. The boss isn't overly threatening anyway, and I've seen him killed in under 20 seconds from a variety of tactics. Don't expect me to be impressed at a strategy that requires everyone else hold-slaving so 1 party member can spam attacks, any class can exploit 3 hold slaves and do massive DPS.

    I do not appreciate you attacking me or my knowledge of the subject. Yes, I made a mistake on one argument because, guess what, it's very difficult to see what's going on. Claiming that I have never partied with a summoner or that I'm nitpicking when I counter an argument in a DEBATE thread is...rude. Very rude.
  20. Soltis Carried by Sandors

    Priest buldge >_> <_<

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