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Waxing Philosophically Part 1 of ∞

Discussion in 'Siusha's Tavern' started by ElectricSix, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. ElectricSix *Insert witty title here*

    So I decided I'd create a thread to wax philosophical and perhaps entice some other lurkers to come out and chat a bit. Hopefully this works or I suspect I'll have to have a long and rather unsettling multiple personality conversation . . . which I may do anyway, but looks more disturbing when I talk about it. XP I do want to note, it may be impossible to answer this thread with any type of discussion as well, cause I have a bad habit of leaving things nearly impossible to discuss without a massive confusionfest so if you find yourself posting tl:dr or "What?", I don't blame you. XP Also, on the opposite end of things, if you think I'm a big idiot talking out of my ass, feel free to correct whatever you see fit, I do love a good argument/discussion, especially about fascinating subjects such as this.

    For the first topic, I suspect the best one is the one in which all other topics derive; Perception. Perception is one of the most important things to any discussion in order to determine the perspective of those involved in said discussion. Now perception and perspective are two different things, and as such, they both must be defined.

    Perception is what makes humanity human. Each of us perceives things a certain way and that ability to perceive is what unites us while at the same time manages to divide us. And really that's what humanity is all about, being able to perceive things from a perspective different from any other being that we currently perceive.

    Now, as for perspective, that is the individual's perception of things. So while you can have a perspective on things, you can't have a perspective without perception. They're obviously quite similar, and could probably contain an entire topic on their own, but to help cut down on confusion, for the moment, we'll just focus on perception.

    Now this still may not make much sense, as the two are invariably tied together, but try to differentiate your perspective from your perceptions.

    Our perceptions are everything to us. They don't just include the senses, they include the way our minds view the world and everything in it, on it, as well as nowhere within it. Colors are an excellent example of this. We perceive the sky is blue, there is of course a scientific explanation for that particularly color, but it is still our perception of the world. To anyone who lacked the ability to perceive blue, it would be a completely different color and a completely different perception.

    For another example, suppose, that there was an “evil” person, who killed, lied, cheated, and did every vile thing you can imagine, and probably some you can’t imagine. Now I want you to take a step back from your perception of them and think about it from their perspective. Now do you think that they thinks they are evil? From their perspective, try to imagine their perception of things. That to them, lying wasn't wrong, cheating wasn't wrong, killing wasn't wrong, nothing was wrong. That perspective is hard to imagine, and that perception even harder.

    On the other hand, you could try to imagine someone so good that they would do anything to help anyone. The epitome of all the good qualities that you can think of. That if you asked them to do something, they would not hestitate. Can you see it from their perspective? Can you perceive the world as they would, as a place in which they could only do good, never evil?

    But all this does is bring up a question, just what does that have to do with anything? XP I mean, it hardly seems an important point to write about right? Or perhaps you have begun to see why this must be the very first part to think of when you begin to think of philosophy. The simple fact of the matter is that your perception is incredibly important when you begin any kind of discussion on the subject. If your perception, your perspective, going in is that that cannot be true, or perhaps the opposite in that it must be true, then you have already blinded yourself to the discussion. The first thing you must do is to open yourself to the possibility that your perception of things is different from every other person's out there and that among all those other perceptions, you may only be able to see a few. Now I'm not saying that the perceptions of other people can't be remarkably similar, or even agree on subjects, but it is an important thing to point out if there is to be any true discussion on this, or really any subject. It is a simple thing, but all to often people only want to look at things their way with their limited perspective and limited perceptions.

    So now my questions for you is, can you change your perspective to allow yourself an unlimited perception? Can you try to look at every possible way a question may be perceived while still retaining your perspective? Would your perspective change if you did look at so many perceptions? And does changing your perception really make it easier to answer these questions? Now I'm sure all that is a bit much to take in and especially so as I have yet to discuss anything truly philosophical, but hopefully you'll post and I'll find out how well received this first part is. ;P
  2. Archie Mexocan

    tl;dr... I percieve this thread to be a wall of text

    (no srsly...)

    I've lived long enough to know that there are people who look at things differently than I do. It's kind of sad when I see somebody look at somebody with a different perception, and automatically assume they're stupid... I would have assumed that the idea of perception was common sense

    But go figure... common sense isn't common
  3. ElectricSix *Insert witty title here*

    Indeed, it's not so common any more, and on the internet, even less so. Thus I felt it was an approriate starting place and one that might draw in a larger than usual number of people. For while there are many ways to agree with the subject, that doesn't mean every person will have the same thoughts upon reading it or even react the same way. In fact, even if people don't post, but do read it, perhaps their perceptions will change, and the next thread I create will see a larger group who wish to post in it. Really, I find the entire subject tends to be a winner all around for me. :p
  4. Dice Dragon Level 46 Manzer Brodor

    Im with archie. TL;DR

    So instead ill say this.

    The Wind can blow all it wants, but if no one listens it does not matter, but that being said, The wind will blow regardless.
  5. ElectricSix *Insert witty title here*

    I'm not overly surprised to hear that, though I'm glad you posted.

    As for the second part, I think the saying doesn't quite fit with this topic in some ways as it is a saying rather than a philosophical standpoint. I think this would be a slightly more accurate area for discussion on this topic:

    The wind can blow all it wants, but if no one perceives it, does it cease to exist? If it continue to exist regardless, than what does that mean for our perceptions? If if exists while we can't perceive it, can it still perceive us? Or does it not have anything to perceive us, does it not perceive anything at all? If it can't perceive anything, how can it exist when it can't be perceived either? And so on and so forth. <.< I could probably come up with a few more, but most of these are tied in to other discussions so it's easy to start getting off perceptions and into waxing philosophically. Then again, if everyone posts TL:DR, then perhaps the second topic I'll have to try to limit it down to some basic questions and a short paragraph.
  6. Dice Dragon Level 46 Manzer Brodor

    Who cares? If you percieve it, It is real to you. And thats all that should matter. "I hear angels!" The standerd person would assume this man is craazy most likely, but if he truely believes he is hearing angels, and percieves the voices, then they exist, as he has heard them. "But thats just a false perception. They might not be real!" And thus how do we prove perceptions. "Because I can touch it, hear it, etc etc" Those are all just perceptions. "I think therefor I am" What if that is just a perception? But the fact of the matter is you can percieve, so who cares if what you percieve is real or not, the fact that you can percieve already proves your own existance.
  7. ElectricSix *Insert witty title here*

    Lol, since I made the topic, I suppose I care. After all, to me it's an important topic to make clear. The entirety of the idea is to not just perceive what you perceive, but to expand beyond that. Yes, for day to day living, this sort of thing isn't important in the slightest, but if you're going to start discussing beyond that, you can't limit yourself to that day to day reality. Perception of our own existance is a great gift to have, but being able to think beyond that is something that is important as well. The fact that we can discuss the mere idea of our perception is quite incredible. It's what seperates us, and as some would say, elevates us, from inanimate objects, plants, and animals. It allows, although sometimes with some difficulty, to reach a common understanding amongst ourselves as well as discuss abstract concepts that, while they do not usually change our daily lives, can have a great amount of impact. The importance of perception can be shrugged off as being solely useful to an individual, but I believe it is an important part to gain a greater understanding when discussing subjects in a group. And the simplest way to get that to happen is to start discussing the very thing we are right now. So, while I do agree that our existance is proven by our very perception of it and that we can't prove our perceptions of that fact, I also believe that there is merit in bringing up the entire discussion in the first place. Not just because it makes people think, but also I feel it is a way of opening people up to other discussions in ways that they might previously have neglected or ignored. And furthermore, it makes for fun and complicated discussion with lots of difficult ideas so that helps too, if only for my own enjoyment. :p
  8. Dice Dragon Level 46 Manzer Brodor

    But in the end, If we look past the day to day life, We lose it. Some people are so concerned about the future they lose site of life itself.
  9. MelodyInsanity {The Unimaginative Title}

    If a tree falls in a forest, but there's nobody to hear it, does it make a sound? It does, just nobody percieves it. Scientists theorize about dark matter and anti matter, and it exists to them, but what about at the beginning of humanity? Do you think they were able to perceive them? No. But did they not exist? They did, just not to us. Similarly, there might be infinity of stuff we cannot perceive, that we can't figure out. Similar concept to Faith.
    And if a man blind from birth and living alone meets another person who has sight, do you think the blind man will believe in such thing as light? No, he'll laugh at the seeing man's face and call him crazy. People might believe different things based on what they can get. Now if there were thousands and millions of people saying the same thing, he can percieve through them, and it is believable.
  10. AiNoMinako Poke Poke Poke

    sorry but +_+ great wall of text....
  11. MelodyInsanity {The Unimaginative Title}

    tl;dr version - people have different perspectives, and their truth is based on it, including percieving themselves, or perceiving through others.
  12. BlanixTheBlood Perfect hair

    Electric go back to lurking. (*-*)
    I can only read that much when Its a story or rant.
  13. conewicci I dun goofed.


    Dammit. Freaking infraction. :<
  14. Serpentine New Member

    I think this is a great post. I hate how gay people perceive themselves to be better than heterosexuals to the point that they need to flaunt it and have parades. If gay people wanted to be seen as equals to heterosexuals, then they should make a collective effort to clean off an oil spill or do something productive rather than being faggots.
  15. Dice Dragon Level 46 Manzer Brodor

    +1 awesome points.

    "We are equal! Treat us as such!"
    >Gays throw big parade and flaunt faggotry everywhere

    Equal to us how? Fuck man.
  16. conewicci I dun goofed.

    Fucking finally. Other people that see it like I do.
  17. Archie Mexocan

    "Yeah? We're just raising gay awareness."

    "Fuck you. We all know you're there whether we want to or not. >_>"

    also, lol @ dating site ad
  18. Rawrrr Bitch.

    Except religions have been abused and manipulated over thousands of years.

    Also lol @ the gay faggotry thing. I said something similar in my H&V class and got sent out.
  19. MelodyInsanity {The Unimaginative Title}

    If they're gay, they would love to.
    And also, about the gay thing, I'm openly against it, but I hate it even more when people shun me for saying it. They say that I should keep it to myself, but if THEY get to excercise the freedom of speech by telling the world about their cause, how come I can't use the freedom of speech to speak MY opinion on it?

    Also, rawrr, at faith thing, yeah it's abused and mutiliated, but the essence of believing is still there.
  20. BlanixTheBlood Perfect hair

    Lots of churches do useful things like build homes for the unfortunate who got hit by disasters, or feed the homeless, pay for medical research.
    Gay people PARTAY!~


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