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Brain teasers and other thought-provoking things.

Discussion in 'Siusha's Tavern' started by saccharin, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. saccharin That one crazy witch

    One of my friends posted this on her profile.
    Discuss. I already have my idea in mind, but I would like to see other people's opinions.

    Has to be no. If the lions are infinitely logical, they understand that there lies a risk to be eaten if they eat the sheep. Since if he eats the sheep, he turns into a sheep and risks getting eaten by another lion, he will not take that risk and would rather eat grass.

    And what Ravi said. The only instance in which a lion would eat a sheep would ... See Morebe if there was no other lions on the island. If there is a zero-risk associated with the action of eating the sheep, than the lion will eat the sheep. If not, there always lies the risk, and thus the overshadowing rule of "Do not get eaten" outweighs the interest in eating the sheep.
  2. Dante9898 ~Derail Master~

    "3) Do not assume anything that hasn't been stated above."

    If it wasn't for this i would have said that the Sheep eats the lion then the sheep becomes a lion and problem solved :p
  3. Holypie Mmmmmmmm

    Too vague, does the desire to eat sheep outweigh the potential for death?
  4. saccharin That one crazy witch

    Take that as the ultimate rule. Basically assume that he wants zero risk.
  5. KenshinX New Member

    So if a lion does decide to eat a sheep, then there can only be 1 sheep on that island at one time?
  6. saccharin That one crazy witch

    Effectively, yes.

    There is one sheep.
    If a lion eats a sheep, he turns into a sheep.

    Thus, only 1 sheep can exist at a time.
  7. MelodyInsanity {The Unimaginative Title}

    Very similar. Depends how far they can think into the future, and it's a paradox, due to the fact taht if they eat the sheep, the lions may not want to eat the new sheep, since they're afraid. I assume if they're infinitely logical, there will be a very big dilema, due to the never ending circle this will produce of logic. The problem I see is how they're infinitely logical.

    So they'd think if I eat the sheep I may get eaten, but other dont' want to get eaten as the sheep, so they might not eat me, but if they eat me, and the other lions still think the same, they will not eat him, and thus he'll get the motivation to eat me, and as other lions see me getting eaten, they dont' want to eat the eater, but then as the eater don't get eaten, another gets motivated, and it will go in circles. However if that happens, then other lions might not want to get risked being eaten (though it says 6) A lion would rather eat grass all his life than be eaten by another lion (after he turned into a sheep). and may mean that they would eat as long as chances are low enough) meaning it is safe for me to eat and so on.
  8. Dante9898 ~Derail Master~

    Now that i think about my answer is yes. Why? Think about it the First Lion eats the sheep thinking that the other lions won't eat him because "A lion would rather eat grass all his life than be eaten by another lion (after he turned into a sheep)." after all one after the other will turn into sheeps if the start eating each other until only one is left, So knowing this the lion takes the chance to eat the sheep and not be eated by another lion no?

    Sorry if i can't make myself more clear.

    Edit: Ninja'ed lol that its more or less what im trying to say here i think :p
  9. MelodyInsanity {The Unimaginative Title}

    But then they'd get eaten by other lions, and would be disencouraged. Especially after seeing a sheep being eaten anyways. They might all want to be last though, but then the paradox yet again comes in.
    The last will not get eaten, and thus they will not want to eat until there's 2 left, 1 sheep and 1 lion. However, that means nobody will want to be the one that eats at 3. Nor 4. Nor forever. And thus nobody will want to eat. But if you follow this paradox, you realize nobody's going to eat, so you eat anyways. But since all lions are infinitely logical they think the same way, and might eat you. But then they might not want to be eaten, and thus not eat unless they are last. And so on.
  10. Dante9898 ~Derail Master~

    tl;dr ver: The lions gets too stuck thinking if they should eat the sheep or no and die of starvation for thinking too much about it :p.
  11. MelodyInsanity {The Unimaginative Title}

    But if they're infinitely smart, then they would do it in less than a milisecond. Due to the infinity's role in this paradox, they are able to think all this in almost no time, but may do so forever. But then what may be thought then may only be occuring at less than a milisecond, since they're infinitely smart.

    Dam word infinite. Makes the world go AH WAH?
  12. saccharin That one crazy witch

    tl;dr this is an unstable equilibrium. One lion eating the sheep will result in other lions eating the sheep.

    Though I do like your idea, Melody, of going from 3 > 4 > 5 and so on, where every lion wants to be the last lion to eat the sheep.
  13. MelodyInsanity {The Unimaginative Title}

    the key term is if one lion eats, how come others will? The fact is, the act of eating the sheep shows the other lions are willing to eat, which makes the risk higher. More likely that it won't be a chain reaction. Mind explaining how it will be a chain reaction?

    However that may also make it seem the risk is low. But the low risk makes others more eager.
  14. Dante9898 ~Derail Master~

    Even a supercomputer would Crash if the program running gets into a infinite loop.
  15. saccharin That one crazy witch

    Ultimately it comes down to whether or not the interest in eating meat outweighs the interest in not being eaten, in terms of actual risk. I wish there was some percentages or something, that way I could find the expected values of this thing. At whatever point where the risk of being eaten outweighs the benefits of eating the sheep, that is the point where all the lions will stop eating the sheep.
  16. MelodyInsanity {The Unimaginative Title}

    Yes an infinite loop
    But a super computer isn't infinitely smart, and the finite cannot grasp the infinite, as they say
    but the lions are infinitely smart and logical

    And sacc, the way I see it, the two interests will dance around each other in the lion's minds, in an infinite loop, and I frankly don't know what will result. Only if they weren't infinitely smart, then they would either die from starvation from thinking so much, be unable to grasp it, or just get tired of it.

    But their infinite smartness makes them capable of thinking all of this so much
  17. saccharin That one crazy witch

    And for a complete joke comment.

    Split sheep into 100 pieces.

    Everyone enjoys sheep. Everyone turns into a sheep. Problem solved.

    But then again, there's the chance of a lion not eating the sheep at first, so that he can enjoy an island full of sheep.
  18. Soltis Carried by Sandors

    Logical choice is life/survival = #1 priority.

    I can't imagine willingly moving yourself out of a guaranteed survival to a not guaranteed survival just for having a better meal one time.

    Aka No he wouldn't eat the sheep.
  19. Dante9898 ~Derail Master~

    Yes but the computer would crash meaning it would stop calculating the moment it gets into the infinite loop because of is finite calculating power.

    On the other hand the lions are infinitely smart and logical, so something like "Crashing" would not happen to them right? they could run the scenario over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
  20. MelodyInsanity {The Unimaginative Title}

    Ah, but the thing is, how important is the sheep?
    You are offered a million dollars for doing something that will kill you 100% of the time. Crazy right?
    how bout 1%? Still risky?
    .001%? Now you might be considering it right?

    There's 2 factors to this, the importance of the sheep, and the risk of being eaten. The risk later branches off into the infinte smartness i mentioned.
    The importance of the sheep is vague, as they say
    , but it never says what if it has a low chance only of being eaten? Similar concept as the million dollars thing, though i'm too lazy to explain. There's also the fact that, to us, a meal might not seem good, but remember these are lions, who might not think the same as us, and they have infinite intelligence, meaning they may have different priorities then those of us with the finite. And it's their thought process and resulting actions which we are trying to deduce.

    and exactly dante. They can keep up the loop due to their infinite smartness, and they can do it in less than a moment due to it. And when they might think a lion "crashes" due to the infinite loop, they may think they gave up hope, and would eat. And that starts another loop of its own, which may again crash. And so on.

    Also, sorry I edit alot, but I just keep remembering stuff I forget to put down, or see a comment too late, so yeah...

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